Posts by Disillusioned JW

24

Snakes walked on legs till the Eden curse Watchtower belief till 1974!!

by Witness 007 in

watchtower 1964 page 352 "....before god cursed it the snake had legs that elevated it off the ground.

god transformed its body so that it ceased to have legs and could move on its belly.".

book "gods eternal purpose"1974 - "god did not put a curse on the whole serpent family...it had only been victimised by satan...".

Disillusioned JW

The story in Genesis about the snake becoming cursed and the WT's early interpretation of it could be interpreted as indicating that the early Semite storytellers had an insight that snakes of their day must have had distant ancestors which had legs - like most reptiles and most other land animals! Such an idea thus can be interpreted as part of the account in Genesis as teaching theistic evolution (or evolutionary creationism). I started thinking that when I began reading science books (including biology textbooks and paleontology books) which teach evolution and which say that the earliest snakes (or at least some of their pre-snake reptilian ancestors) had legs!

Likewise the story about Eve (and her female descendants) becoming cursed with painful childbirth can also be interpreted as teaching theistic evolution (or evolutionary creationism). How so? Well consider the following. Some anthropology books and articles teach that the reason why human child birth is so painful is because human baby brains (and hence human baby skulls) are so big (at least relative to the size of the rest of their body, in comparison to non-human animal babies). Our high intelligence (relative to non-human animals) is largely due to our relatively large brains (and the way they are structured). In the Genesis story Eve (whom the story says is the mother of all humans living - the Good News Bible (GNB) even says "mother of all human beings") gained immense knowledge as a result of eating fruit of the tree of knowledge (according to some interpretations of the story). [Notice that the main text of Genesis 3:22 in the GNB says "Then the Lord God said, “Now these human beings have become like one of us and have knowledge of what is good and what is bad.[m]" According to the translation of the GNB, Eve and all other humans (or at least Eve and Adam) came to know everything, since according to that Bible, at Genesis 3:22, the translators' note "m" says, "knowledge of what is good and what is bad; or knowledge of everything").]

As a result, the story about Eve can be interpreted as some of the ancient Semites knowing childbirth is painful because human babies have large brains (which enable humans to be highly intelligent, relative to non-human animals). Therefore, the story can also be interpreted as teaching (or at least being somewhat consistent with) rapid evolution of hominids, due to a beneficial mutation (in this case caused by ingestion of a substance in the environment) in a very small isolated population (punctuated equilibrium theory of evolution, including an element of allopatric speciation theory of evolution), resulting in the hominid brain becoming much larger and much more intelligent in the human lineage, and with the mutation being passed on to all of the descendants! Wow!

10

Well what do you know gb finally understanding social isolation or shunning.

by Yomama in

jw
friends

update some upstanding jw are experiencing social isolation isnt that what df and da people feel?reap sow karma..

Disillusioned JW

Hi folks I decided to return to posting to this site, so I could participate in interesting discussions about the Bible, the WT, and science. I guess you could say I decided to stop isolating myself from this site (at least some sections of it), since there are some good informative topics on this site. Cheers!

I've 'always' (that is, since my teenage years) strongly disliked Proverbs 18:1 (and some of the the WT's applications of it), especially during my youth. That is because I knew that pursing one's own selfish desires isn't always a bad a thing, at least if by the word "selfish" one means "self interests". You see, as a teenager and as an adult in my 20s and 30s I wanted lots of free time to pursue harmless hobbies. I wanted to spend much less time in JW activities (and even in social activities) so I could "isolate" myself in my bedroom to do the following: study science books and science articles, study books about inventions, perform science experiments (I had an electronics kit and a chemistry kit) and attempt to make scientific discoveries and to invent some things, write computer programs (in BASIC) to perform useful tasks, and to figure out how to make lots of money in the stock market. Science my preteen years the types of people I admired the most, in regards to their intelligence and accomplishments, (and who I wanted to become like, in regards to success) were famous highly accomplished scientists and inventors (such as Leonardo da Vinci, Benjamin Franklin, Michael Faraday, Nikola Tesla, and fictional scientists-inventors in various science fiction movies).

Adhering to Proverbs 18:1, at least as sometimes interpreted/'explained' by the WT, hinders people from attaining successful careers in science, in inventing/engineering, in business, in sports, and in other areas. You see, to become successful people need to spend a lot time (often by themselves) to study, to contemplate, to experiment, and to practice. Adhering to Proverbs 18:1, at least as sometimes interpreted/'explained' by the WT, also hinders people from spending an adequate amount of time in critically examining the claims of the WT to see if some of the claims are erroneous. Since decades ago, I have thought that the human writer of Proverbs 18:1 wrote Proverbs 18:1 in part to keep people mentally trapped in Judaism and in continuing to practice Judaism, by trying to prevent Jews from having enough time by themselves to think about their religion independently.

If I hadn't been so active as a JW (due to the guilt the WT produced in me when I wanted to pursue personal 'selfish' intellectual interests (instead of JW meeting attendance and WT study and preaching) I probably would have done more study about evolution (from science publications) and realized as a young person that evolution is true.

11

Oregon to go permanent on face masks. More will flood out of the communist state.

by mickbobcat in

the liberal idiots and useful fools who follow are going and going and going.

now they are trying to make masks permanent.

at some point people are going to revolt.

Disillusioned JW

Corrections: I now notice that my prior post had multiple typos in it, but I hope readers knew what my intended meanings were. I was in a hurry to complete the post while at a public library.

Update: Since early childhood I have been a naturally predominantly risk averse person, the primary exception being my attempts to make a lot of money quick in the stock market.

Goodbye everyone. I have decided that I have gained probably all of the significant utility (on topics of interest to me) I can from this website (primarily the evidence that the WT/JW religion is false and that it appears to now be in decline). I also dislike a significant portion of the content on this site. Therefore, I have decided that this post will be my last one on this site and that it is now my endeavor to no longer visit this ultraconservative site which favors conspiracy ideas. I thus now intend to cease all association/fellowship with this site, though there are a number of good people on this site. Bye.

31

I have come to the conclusion that a lot of JWs don't care if the end is near.

by mickbobcat in

i was in the cult for years about 40. fourth gen born in cult member or for me ex cult member.

i have seen so many cult members who don't seem to really care if the end is near or not.

they are much more concerned with the idea that this is their social network and they need and or want it just the way it is.

Disillusioned JW

Hi Abraham1, your link of (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext) has a problem. Both times in this thread when you posted the link the final ")" got accidentally included into the link, thus preventing the link from loading the page. However, after I deleted the ")" then what remained of the link worked. [I wasn't able to load it until a short while ago, after I discovered the cause of the problem.]

The article partially supports what you said about the Covid-19 vaccines not making a difference - but only in some contexts. The article also says the Covid-19 vaccines provide some degree of protection in some regards. The science journal article article in part says the following (I have added some boldface for emphasis of statements saying the vaccines provide some protection).

"Interpretation

Vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and accelerates viral clearance. Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts. Host–virus interactions early in infection may shape the entire viral trajectory.

...

Introduction

...

Vaccination was found to be effective in reducing household transmission of the alpha variant (B.1.1.7) by 40–50%, 1 and infected, vaccinated individuals had lower viral load in the upper respiratory tract (URT) than infections in unvaccinated individuals, 2 which is indicative of reduced infectiousness. 3 , 4 However, the delta variant (B.1.617.2), which is more transmissible than the alpha variant, 5 , 6 is now the dominant strain worldwide. After a large outbreak in India, the UK was one of the first countries to report a sharp rise in delta variant infection. Current vaccines remain highly effective at preventing admission to hospital and death from delta infection. 7 However, vaccine effectiveness against infection is reduced for delta, compared with alpha, 8 , 9 and the delta variant continues to cause a high burden of cases even in countries with high vaccination coverage.

....

Discussion

...

Our findings help to explain how and why the delta variant is being transmitted so effectively in populations with high vaccine coverage. Although current vaccines remain effective at preventing severe disease and deaths from COVID-19, our findings suggest that vaccination alone is not sufficient to prevent all transmission of the delta variant in the household setting, where exposure is close and prolonged. Increasing population immunity via booster programmes and vaccination of teenagers will help to increase the currently limited effect of vaccination on transmission, but our analysis suggests that direct protection of individuals at risk of severe outcomes, via vaccination and non-pharmacological interventions, will remain central to containing the burden of disease caused by the delta variant."

11

Oregon to go permanent on face masks. More will flood out of the communist state.

by mickbobcat in

the liberal idiots and useful fools who follow are going and going and going.

now they are trying to make masks permanent.

at some point people are going to revolt.

Disillusioned JW

Anony Mous, I stopped driving a car many years ago, due to safety reasons (driving often made me too worried that I would get into an accidents, and I had some accidents from driving and I didn't want anymore). Regarding the foods I eat, I have moved increasingly to healthy plant-based diets, in an effort to have a longer life than what otherwise likely be the case. I am striving to live to past 100 years old (aiming for 120 years though knowing I very probably won't reach that age). I take multiple nutritional supplement. I also never smoked anything and only rarely drank alcohol. Now I don't drink alcohol at at (it tastes nasty to me every time I tried it anyway, except when fruit juice was included in it.) Since I started getting flu shots (free of charge at my place of work) I haven't had any flu or cold symptoms. I think my wearing masks, and social distancing, is also protecting me from catching the cold (such as on public transportation), though I probably will catch the cold eventually - but when I do catch it the viral load will likely be much lower than in the past. If the viral load is load, then cold will likely be less severe than if the load wasn't low. I have noticed that even prior to Covid-19 a number of people in some Asian countries wore masks in public. I think that is a smart move and now it is my custom also.

29

Why some are religious or not?

by Vidqun in

time article: several years before pope francis became pope of the catholic church in 2013, psychologists began to debunk the idea that being more educated meant a person was less likely to be religious.

instead, a new social psychology theoryone that had little to do with education levelarose.

according to dual process theory, people are either deliberative or intuitive when they make decisions.

Disillusioned JW

pistolepete, I've haven't paid even a penny for my Covid-19 vaccine doses, other than perhaps indirectly in income taxes (and even that is unlikely considering the current tax structure in the USA). In the USA the Covid-19 vaccines are administered at no charge to the public - the federal government is the one paying for them. The government (starting with the prior president's administration and continuing into the government of the current president's administration) said the reason is keep the cost down for the government and to get the vaccines to the people quicker.

11

Oregon to go permanent on face masks. More will flood out of the communist state.

by mickbobcat in

the liberal idiots and useful fools who follow are going and going and going.

now they are trying to make masks permanent.

at some point people are going to revolt.

Disillusioned JW

I know Oregon very well; it is not a communist state. I love that state. You are correct though in saying the state has now decided to make the indoor mask mandate permanent (in the sense of 'for the foreseeable future'). I voluntarily wear a mask at all times when outside of my home, except when eating and drinking. Even if Covid-19 eventually no longer becomes a problem, I intend to wear a mask for years when around other people (even if no law requires me to do so or urges me to do so), in order to reduce the likelihood of me catching an infectious disease of any kind.

29

Why some are religious or not?

by Vidqun in

time article: several years before pope francis became pope of the catholic church in 2013, psychologists began to debunk the idea that being more educated meant a person was less likely to be religious.

instead, a new social psychology theoryone that had little to do with education levelarose.

according to dual process theory, people are either deliberative or intuitive when they make decisions.

Disillusioned JW

I agree that if a person (at least in the USA, I don't know in regards to other countries) gets a health problem after being vaccinated with a Covid-19 vaccine, that person has no legal recourse against the manufacturer of the vaccine. That is because the USA federal government (since 2020) has decreed that those manufacturers can't be sued in regards to those vaccines. That is something which disturbs me.

10

Science news articles supporting biological evolution, including by discoveries of fossils

by Disillusioned JW in

"a billion-year-old fossil of an organism, exquisitely preserved in the scottish highlands, reveals features of multicellularity nearly 400 million years before the biological trait emerged in the first animals, according to a new report in the journal current biology by an international team of researchers, including boston college paleobotanist paul k. strother.." see https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/528947 and https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/news/billion-year-old-fossil-reveals-missing-link-evolution-animals for details.. the first article listed above says the following.. "the microfossil, discovered at loch torridon, contains two distinct cell types and could be the earliest example of complex multicellularity ever recorded, according to the researchers.

the fossil offers new insight into the transition of single celled organisms to complex, multicellular animals.

modern single-celled holozoa include the most basal living animals and the fossil discovered shows an organism which lies somewhere between single cell and multicellular animals, or metazoa.".

Disillusioned JW

"Australopithecus sediba Comfortably Walked on Two Legs, But Could Climb Like Ape" - see http://www.sci-news.com/othersciences/anthropology/australopithecus-sediba-locomotion-10301.html . The article says in the part the following.

"The discovery also shows that like humans, Australopithecus sediba had only five lumbar vertebrae."

'The authors concluded that Australopithecus sediba is a transitional form of ancient human relative and its spine is clearly intermediate in shape between those of modern humans (and Neanderthals) and great apes.

“Issa walked somewhat like a human, but could climb like an ape,” Professor Berger said.'

See also https://theconversation.com/fossil-spine-suggests-ancient-human-relative-walked-like-us-but-climbed-like-an-ape-172966 . The scientist who is the lead author of the science journal article article (at https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.27.445933v1.abstract ) about the new fossil find for the species says the following.

"To approach A. sediba’s evolutionary relationship to other hominins, character-based analyses of the whole body are needed, and we’re getting more and more of A. sediba every year. Given what this and other research has shown, I think it’s a candidate for a close relative of the genus Homo. Hopefully Issa’s skull was not destroyed by miners: recovering that and other body parts from both her and Karabo will go a long way in resolving the debate."

29

Why some are religious or not?

by Vidqun in

time article: several years before pope francis became pope of the catholic church in 2013, psychologists began to debunk the idea that being more educated meant a person was less likely to be religious.

instead, a new social psychology theoryone that had little to do with education levelarose.

according to dual process theory, people are either deliberative or intuitive when they make decisions.

Disillusioned JW

Vidqun, while searching for news articles about science in the USA a moment ago I found an article which supports to some degree your concerns about Covid-19 vaccines causing blood clots (though it says the blood clots are rare). It pertains to the AstraZeneca vaccines and possibly to the Johnson & Johnson vaccines, since those vaccines use an adenovirus as a helper virus. It does not pertain to the Pfizer vaccines and Moderna vaccines since they don't use a helper virus. The vaccine I had was the Moderna one and I chose it because I thought it was the safest, including in regards to risk of getting blood clots. A person from the Human Resources department at my place of work told me that hardly any of the workers in our company took the Johnson & Johnson vaccine (or any one-dose vaccine). The AstraZeneca vaccine is not approved for use in the USA, but it is allowed to be exported from the USA (see https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-august-6-2021#:~:text=The%20AstraZeneca%20vaccine%20is%20not,be%20exported%20for%20use. ). That means nearly all of the workers at my place of work had either the Pfizer vaccine of the Moderna vaccine, and when I asked some co-workers which one they took, they either said Pfizer or Moderna, with only a couple or so saying Johnson & Johnson. I notice you said that J&J and Pfizer were the vaccines offered in your part of the world. The article I read is from the New York Times and thus I probably can't post a link to it, though I see nothing in its content which I think can be construed as liberal. I am not sure if I am allowed to state the title of the article on this site, but the article is dated Dec. 2, 2021. The NYT article has a link to a science journal article about the findings at https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abl8213 .